I have nothing against vaultz “he is our Robin Hood” it is an asset for the BTCZ and for the community. Want to corrupt Robin Hood
must be impossible by all means.
"Hydra" : A New Community Structure
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Hugo who joined in the end of May here, just after the proposal, is getting it and all the other 60+ members , most of which are here for one or even about two years and many of them have dedicated full time working hours in this project, are not gettin’ it eh ?
You are funny @HarryArms and I believe that you are tryin to SPREAD FUD , maybe hugo is even your alter ego with second profile (admins have to check some things about it).
You say so many bullshit and you dare to complain for dictators taking over ! Lol, of we had dictatorz here you would have been banned with so mNy different opinions that you have expressed.
In reality, you would have been banned by the most crypto forums with such offensive speaking to one of the main designers who was keep answering to you with very good manners.
Despite this fact you keep saying the same bullshit, again and again.
First of all you are a big fat lier , because you accused the proposer for bribery.
For those who know even the basic inside this community, seeing the icons of the voters, can easily understand that your claim is impossible to happen because Vandar has made it to unite every member old and younger ones, with very nice ideas, not by paying.
First of all , all these people are proven real supporters of the coin and seeing all those people supporting the ideas , means that Vz and hydra proposals are for the good of the coin.
The voting time is long enough in the btcz forum, and the proposer let almost time of 3 weeks, the super max for btcz and for cryptos in general. In the most projects they vote for one week.
If you were a member of those “company like” cryptos you wouldn’t even vote/choose for anything and with such behavior you would have been banned for sure as well. You are free to try it and join them and try to talk this way.
Finally , you claim that a “closed” team is deciding about everything?
- this team is much wider for btcz than the teams of other crypto
- everyone is free to join , but he has to respect the other members (something that is not happening jn your case to be sincere)
- I noticed that the proposal was linked in the ANN forum and all the social media fromt the very first moment , so again you lie.
Why to believe a proven lier like you and not Vandar and dozens of other members who have worked so hard for the project?
So dont wonder why you are considered a FUDing Troll man.
Even for the Vz , you are so nervous about it, the keys stealing scenarios etc.
You are giving this situation so big dimensions like this is your personal wallet. Lol take it easy, you are not forced to mine btcz.
We are all miners and we all decided for this to expand the coin.
Based on your behavior we are assured that people like you are the dangerous for stealing, and thnx god there are those protection measures in hydra preventing this from happening. This is obviously the reason why you got so nervous with this proposal. Because the bad actors cannot inflitrate into btcz anymore.
The trolls cannot pass things even with fake votes.
The project is moving to much better days with a strong team by core community members all together united and this is something that obviously bothering some people like you.
Hey people just ignore this troll
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Dio, you get it right. Thanks, man ! 
And Harry… If you ever dealt with him (Vandar) in a non aggressive way, you would know he is a friendly and competently guy ! With no intention of taking anything away from someone.
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Dio? Your brain is broken, pal. You make me laugh. Your lousy handle on the language puts you at a mighty disadvantage, but like I said, if you could read, it’s hard to stand the in face of a mob. Just because you like this proposal doesn’t make it good, either. If you could read, you would see the weaknesses I pointed out that none of you lame brains have considered. And what does Hugo’s longevity have to do with anything you dolt? Why won’t any of you clowns answer the simplest of questions? My behavior is to enlighten those who can think. You are not one of them.
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Are you another non-reader, Dennis? I pointed out exactly my position if you can read and put on a thinking cap. Can you define “quorum” for me Denny? Or is that just another “bullshit” question?
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Ah, nvm. I dont have time to discuss with closed minded people. Have a nice day 
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My goodness some simple questions seem to stump you folks and no one has time enough to answer but surely enough time to call me names. Isn’t any one of you just curious a little why these questions aren’t answered? Not one of the cheerleaders of this proposal asked one question. Just 60 votes in the first few days then nothing.
Quorum?
Vote buying?
Incorporation?
Why not Trustless?
Auditing the “Trusted Guardian”
Come on. Surely there is one of you thinkers that can answer such simple queries? Closed minded? Because I have the temerity to ask a few questions of this cult of personality? That statement simply makes no sense, a non sequitur, but if it makes you feel better.
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I Already answerd this it seems: How to you define it ? minimum the 1/2 of member here ? … So you can wait one year to have it …
The cost was also low 
It’s delirium, buying 65 votes? The 700+ member are free to manifest themselves.
in any structure it is necessary to trust someone (or a group of people). this peoples are usually put forward automatically by the comunity
Wy not 
But I do not think it should be you who does it
Finally,
I wonder if it’s not you who reads between the lines only.
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Doing something just to be doing something is the worst reason ever for doing something. So, quorum is what is needed no matter how long it takes. 1/2 seems good to me. As an aside, don’t you ponder at all why 60 voted yes right off the bat Without One NO vote until I started raising a few questions then the support stopped, and then a few No votes? Or why hash rate fell by half about the same time? Just curious if anyone around here ever thinks before acting. As for vote buying? How much was offered those who support this scam and for how long? In most cases Any form of vote buying would make any so-called vote corrupt. Not hard to garner votes from a few friends when you offer them a cut of a billion BTCZ for a bumper sticker or thumbs up repost or what have you? How ignorant can you be if you don’t understand the whole concept of BTC etc is that it is “trustless?” My goodness does this really escape you people? I have no idea who you are and you have no idea who I am but the coin just keeps mining and it keeps showing up in our wallets and I don’t have to trust you or anyone else one bit. But now you (deleted) have decide to “elect” with 60 votes a “Trusted Guardian” to oversee one billion BTCZ! This is thhe perfect definition of “scam coin.” I am the one who is laughing at you if it wasn’t so sad! And how are you going to deal with the regulators when they outlaw your coin because they are outlawing “privacy coins” all over the world right now? You gonna step up and be responsible, Marcellus? Vandar? Dennis? Incorporate or when the regulators or lawsuits come your way you will be held personally responsible. As for auditing the hehehe “Trusted Guardian” and his cohort, you are gonna have to pay a licensed CPA firm for that. Gonna cost you some cash. You paying, Marcellus? And if you don’t audit, how long before you get sued for substandard business practices or neglect of fiduciary responsibility? Some more simple questions needing answers. I know full well what I am reading. I am not a game playing child.
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LOL @HarryArms arms you are a fuckinTroll 4sure , u are unmasked now.
After your try to convince us that you are caring for the good of the project, after wondering why this vote lasted for only three weeks and not a year or something, after you called dictatorship the 94% YES and democratic the 6% which was only you and likely another profile of yours, you now pass to the next phase : you try to scare everyone who is working for the coin and you threaten them that they will be liable in an aftermath of possible crypto regulations etc.
LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS…?
GET A LIFE MAN.
First of all there are bout 5 thousands cryptos out there with the most being pure SCAM with ICOs and premines and instamines and “”"“developers”""" which have dissapeared to make money from the next scam.
You are accusing volunteers who have never been paid for their hard work to expand this project, which by the way is among the VERY FEW with transparent launch and no icos and premined intransparent funds!!?
LMAO , how LOWER can you fall with your behaviour?
You are a really BAD troll man.
This is a PURE Community coin, something that you knew from the very first moment.
So Community is deciding , and Community is not you or a few passing Trolls from here, it is the majority of ALL the active members.
If you are not ok with this just STOP spending time or mining resources for BTCZ. NOBODY is forcing you to mine the coin or to buy it .
In reality, NOBODY told you that you have to ““invest”” in cryptos in general, because as you know everybody is saying that this is an extremely risky hobby and you should only throw money that you only afford to lose, so crying and threatening Community members , because you had other visions for the coin (which for the most of us would be catastrophic, especially now after seeing your way of thinking and speaking) is at LEAST RUDICULOUS.
I suggest to visit your psycotherapist asap and stop spending time in here, really
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Dolts like you keep coming up with inane things to say about me but never seem to be able to answer the simple questions stated. You are creating a business here with this dopey proposal and you are going to get your pannies in a bunch when the taxman comes calling. Go piss up a rope until you can come up with something intelligent to write.
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You do have a point. There shouldn’t be a “Trusted Guardian” for a cryptocurrency. That’s too much like the corrupt system we have now. I’m not saying Vandar can’t be trusted, but a trustless system should be developed. Anything can happen in life; private keys to community funds can be lost or anything could happen which would cause a percent of the mining community’s funds to be misplaced an inaccessible forever. With a vote from a few, to put a few in control over something that is supposed to be decentralized isn’t logical. Like you said HarryArms, there were 60 YES votes in the first few days (I don’t know, I haven’t verified the amount of votes). I do know that Hydra had been discussed for quite a while before the voting began. I know I voted YES immediately after the proposal was mentioned in the Telegram/Discord channels. That would explain why there were so many immediate YES votes in the beginning, followed by some NO votes later on. Maybe people voted NO weren’t active in the community and didn’t know of Hydra or who was making the proposal in order to trust a “Trusted Guardian”. I think voting should be mandatory in order to use the BTCZ ecosystem because community voting is in the whitepaper. Voting should be verified by a trustless system, but there’s really no way to verify each vote is from only one community member. The white paper is all about community voting, so if the community votes for someone to be a “Trusted Guardian” for a particular wallet, the community can just as well come together with a proposal against it. With that being said, it is up to the community to come together to make a trustless voting system/ community funds manager.
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We should work for a better voting system , at least from the requirements view for someone in order to cast a vote etc.
However the “Guardian” or “President -like” role wss necessary like in the most Democracies: There is a parliament (you can see as a mini parliament the 5 Community Managers ) and there is a President who has to approve everything that the parliament is voting, because something could be harmful.
In our case , our open structure is leaving the Community vulnerable to bad actors or a team which could hypothetically come and try to take over the project, changing its initial approach (for example trying to half the rewards faster with a speculative and narrow -view or letting ASICs in etc).
This is why a Guardian/President is necessary even more in our case.
Cryptorex was the choice for this position in this proposal because he is the oldest and more stable member, a part of the core team and extremely active through time.
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- A proper page for voting on selected projects should be created.
- no one should have private keys to vaultZ.
- in order to reward miners for the loss of 5%, they should receive something similar to the VoteCoinZ sewn into blockchain BTCZ during extraction.
- by voting on the appropriate page, votecoinZ would vote on the projects voted on here.
- after the vote, coins automatically come out in the indicated amount to the address indicated.
- I have no idea what it would look like from the technical side
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your idea is a bit overcomplexed.
Giving out coins from nowhere is something what Whitepaper clearly says out as NO.
Its an untrusted scammish behaviour.
Every miner can decide if he/she takes the loss for the community’s advantage for faster improvements.
Amounts at VaultZ if noone has a key, it means its completely lost. The system how it is now, VaultZ has more keyholders and be only to transfer funds based only on votes and it needs a certain transaction approval to move out (Multisignature).
Community voted projects by a community driver coin is Decentralization itself. Hydra is just an Overwatch.
Any new improvements can be devoted.
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The problem here is that some people of “trust” have taken control of btcz and are doing and undoing what they want and nobody can do anything, I got bored of saying no, that’s why I got away from the project, but good luck with everything!
hi @KOMETE4, please can we talk? I’m the guy who organized the first btcz meeting. there are things that don’t work for me, too. Example? you still don’t know when you vote. 
but if you’ve spent a lot of time on this project. please help me have a conversation with you. I could be you some time ago, and if this project is to be abandoned I would understand it right away.
this is my telegram: @greyfox7
Guys I never felt that the project is under control of anyone. This is by far the most open Cryptocurrency project ever.
BitcoinZ had overcome this risk when the developers and many members refused to “hand over” the project to a specific designers group who asked for complete control of the project showing an extremely violent and offensive behaviour to many Community members who had made many things for the project.
IMHO the most important element for a Community driven project , is the respect among its members, especially the very first core members who set the base of the Project is ideal to have good relationship.
During the last months , despite the “crypto winter” with most of the cryptocurrencies being considerably lower than their all time highs , I have noticed that there are many people who silently work for BTCZ sub-projects either in small groups or alone , with harmony and respect to everyone’s efforts! There is even an evolving on-line friendship being built between some of them, although they are just strangers in “real life”.
This is the most beautiful thing, much more important than anything else, and this is how a real Community Driven Project should be anyway.
Personally I would have been happier if I had seen the old core developers being more active around the BitcoinZ project again.
However, I totally understand that this is a volunteering project and some people don’t always have endless time to spend for it.
Some are passing from it, others are returning after some months or a few years, but in every case , everyone who has done something for BitcoinZ and has been respectful to the other members, has helped the project evolve to a higher level.
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IMHO , as I have already expressed my thoughts to you 
: We should vote again for a more sophisticated election system, with more time for the Community managers (for example 6 months instead of 3) and some protection measures as well if possible.
However most of the active members had no time to either rewrite a proposal or to even complete the report for the current Community Managers and ask for a new election round, because they are working for sub-projects like the site , the ledger solution , the stealth project etc.
I hope that this will change soon though !
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I think you had some good ideas, I have suggested a few as well however, things take time. I have also took the attitude of just do it as this is a grass roots project and there is also individual responsibility to make things happen where we\I can . Make stickers, print flyers, Blog, give friends a few coins and make it grow. Cheers
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