NOT GOING TO HAPPEN : Marketing guidelines, rebranding and redesign


#82

wow, so this was about a control structure.

My problem with the chosen few attitude of trusted people. Look, if someone does something for the community, it should be reflected that way. So if you own a website and collect donations and share it with a team of others you are cool with or know, and all involved with secretly, let the community know, this (team here, does this and that)

We don’t need stealth anything. We need announcements that someone or a team is working on something and its a contribution to the community.

So called: “Trusted people” have made decisions in the dark, the end results impacted BitcoinZ more than rebranding or branding has. Coinbene, Bit-Z are just two recent examples.

While, I have been here for some time, since 18th of September, 2017. I have remained clear of any groups that promote “The Hive” and “the Collective” mindsets.

These are the things that lead to BitcoinCash and I can see this will be the case with BitcoinZ. As more scrutiny is done, on all that is BitcoinZ, we will find that the system of a few, who secretly manage and control the whole, via access and so on are going to be a pain point of BitcoinZ.

Controls should be removed. We should have more than one Forum, more than one access point.

The problem is everyone wants their work or access point to be the main one, the coveted one.

there should be no ego involved, there should only be doing. It’s one reason I like the Egyptianbman. He has done and remains silent from afar. Whether me and him or him and others get along, he isn’t concerned with any control as far as I can see or tell. I am also not in the closed circles so I can’t really know.

The only thing that makes a coin, successful; is fulling its white paper; attracting miners, attracting exchanges and traders.

Pursuing Exchanges and traders is often the way to scare them away unless you are ready to pay hefty fees.

My personal thoughts and feelings aside:

Removing any closed circles and keeping everything transparent works hand in hand with Decentralization. People give value and accept things that are easily comprehended and allows layers of security, trustless transactions along with a strong network.

These are important areas for BitcoinZ.

Cronyism - Should be removed, entirely.


#83

Yes, it was about control of the official output.
This exercise mskes no sense to be done „next to” the current output.

I’ll step back and let you do your thing.
Can’t help the way you’re describing because to me it won’t be help. It will just be adding to the chaos.

Best of luck (honestly).

I’ll be here, keeping my fingers crossed.


#84

I am not proposing anything, only pointed out that cronyism is not ideal and very bad for BTCZ. Additionally, while it maybe something interesting regarding, filtering the content; this is not a bad idea.

However, the proposal was not about filtering content to present BTCZ with a unified front.

That is something entirely different. I am not sure why anyone would make a proposal and not follow the guidelines in the white paper such as:

Propose it, Own it, Maintain it.

If you aren’t going to maintain and own what you propose, then devs and admins of this forum should archive this proposal.

it makes no sense, when all those who are working on it, claim they would not be part of it?

wow, way to go with undermining a white paper guys. Maybe now you can see the errors in what you proposed.


#85

No. I see a mistake in a free for all approach.
The output without control is extremely bad and is hurting the work of the devs and other people willing to truly do good.

We would have owned it by helping the community pick that team and setting it in motion.

This coin is a meme, but at least doge is cute and that’s it’s appeal.

This isn’t cute.


#86

@mikeM, @iapz, its really odd the one whos name got involved into a conspirancy (as he tells) and because of this gets out, votes “Yes” and the other who created the conspirancy, votes against.


#87

Hi all.

I actually think that is is a great idea and love the proposed new look.

But I do have a few questions (of which there seems to have been a lack of so far!).

  1. As a community member am I able to join the proposed marketing team? Or would this be a closed group of select individuals? I really believe that anyone with an Interest in Marketing and that would make an ACTIVE Contribution should be able to join the team and be able to be part of the discussions on the marketing side. We could even have a few of the Devs on the team. This will mean we are still decentralised as anyone from the community can join and the criticisms so far are negated. I would like to think this is not about a select group taking over but the community members with marketing skills banding together to streamline our image via an official channel.

  2. I assume the marketing team will be working on a voluntary basis for the good of the coin just like the Devs do and will not expect to be paid out of community funds?

  3. would the marketing team have expect to have access to community funds for marketing purposes?
    I think the marketing team should raise donations just like we do currently for exchanges etc and if they need to access community funds then a proposal will need to be made for the whole community. Marketing team should not have the power to just use funds as they please (unless it is from the marketing donations).

Finally regarding the so called “fan art” - I personally do like it and hats off to all members that put in the effort to promote our coin. However I can see how people may perceive some it as childish/unprofessional, in which case why not take this negative and turn it in to a positive? We could have a official Btcz fan art twitter channel and all btcz art work that’s not going through the marketing team/official channel or does not comply with the standard guidelines/Color schemes etc goes through the fan art handle. Fan arts are an amazing thing. They show how passionate a community is about something.
Now what’s going to happen is rather then people seeing these images coming from various twitter accounts and thinking btcz is made up by a bunch of kids, they see the images come out of the btcz fan art feed which runs adjacent to the “official” feed and the perception changes completely to this community has some passionate people putting time and effort in to making images outside that official channel. At least this is what I think whenever I see fan art on anything that does not comply with whatever it is representing.

Also I have not voted yet. Till my above questions are answered.

P.s. I have registered to the forum today, just to write this but have been mining/buying/following btcz progress since early November.


#88

I voted yes with the hope the community would build on it or alter it with constructive criticism rather than slam it down, and slander the people directly or indirectly involved.

I am sticking by my vote as the work is clean and the core concept is a good start to something I truly feel BTCZ would benefit from.


#89

This for me is the end of discussion.

The update which I think is desperately needed also needs a change of mindset and without it it’s pointless for me to spend 100+ hours on making that happen and my own cash to then code the site and the new wallet UI.
It seems that a lot of the people would like a redesign (judging by the vote) but as we’ve said before this - we believe in doing things the good way / fully rather than half-assed. And the proposed approches were half-assed and would de-value the work we’d put in.

For a new brand to exist -> ALONGSIDE <- the current one is just silly. It’s better for it to not exist and stick to the current one. 2 co-existing brands make one another weaker.

I wanted to help so we spent all that time (quite a lot of time) and posted this for free.
I’m not angry or anything, you have a right to do whatever you want. Same as me and I can take a No (even if the poll says yes ;)).

So this is basically why I’m not going to do anything else regarding a new “look” and I’ll remove myself from the forums soon.

I am however updating the initial temporary brand guidelines pdf I did so you can (but don’t have to) use it for a better communication in the future. That will be my parting gift to the community.


#90

Yes

Yes

No, if funds are required, a new proposal will be presented in the forum and it will have to be voted on individually

I also love fanart, it’s an important part of btcz.


#91

I’m sorry to read this, thanks for trying.

I can host.


#92

Thanks for the reply @KOMETE4
Those are the answers I was looking for. Dont see any conflict with the white paper. I have voted Yes.
It’s a shame it’s not going go anywhere. Feel we have lost a good opportunity here but lets takeaway the positives from this and move forward as a community.


#93

Just a final question. How come we all have voted with positive impact and it is not going to happen ?

Who decides that vote is not valid ? In my opinion vote is valid and should be proceeded.

Anyway community is not a community as You say if a 51%+ voting is passed and cant be done.

Weak


#94

Actually, anyone who knows how to do this is free to do the work. I also understand the position of Mike and his team, has spent time and effort in presenting something with the best intention and some paranoid members (@Jhanny) have diverted attention from what was really important in the proposal.


#95

I understand, you see good, when people put soap in your eyes, unfortunately, I am not blind and I can read, I can read between the lines and also, without judging, I can deduce what a person is proposing in context of the input and outputs required to achieve their goal, without asking for the details.

The above means, without any paranoia, I clearly differentiated between a team proposing to do great work for the community, vs a team proposing to take control of a dynamic and core area of function of the community.

The function of marketing and branding does not require anyone to control or choose, or filter or select team members.

Did this proposal said, suggest in clear terms, that the chosen team would operate as a filter? NO

Did this proposal said that those proposing would not be part of the marketing team? NO

Did this proposal, provide transparent, concise and clear information regarding the true perspectives of those behind the proposal? NO

There were many things that came to light after the proposal was made, and the scrutiny it received was because it clearly, was not within the remit of the white paper / community paper.

I am not sure why you @KOMETE4 (MANU) would choose to pursue character assassination, by suggesting I am paranoid.

I am not here to pander to anyone and their emotions. Blood boiling or not, propose something useful, without seeking control.

Its simple. This team could have come together and done their work without any of the community members being criticized. Unfortunately this was not the case.

Many things went wrong and it was due to the community seeing just how bad these guys are.

All the cronyism that came out was and is clear. The dev of the coin was after one thing alone:

A community where clicks can be formed and work together, in support of BitcoinZ Community, They don’t need to control the community.


#96

What you or anyone else thinks is not important, especially when your thoughts and words, are constructed just to allow you to get your way.

If you guys had or did receive control, you would ruin this community and this coin.

I am thankful to whomever let this out early vs keeping it a secret. It stinks of cronyism, and I am am not sad about the BitcoinZ community avoiding character such as yourself and the secret marketing team, that only wanted to filter who and what can post content of a decentralized community.

Do yourselves a favor and re-write this proposal and do something positive.

It would be greatly appreciated. I think it is sad, that you guys have refused to edit your proposal and stick to rebranding and marketing only.

You could have all just done this as @equipool.1ds.us or @renuzit has done, without seeking attention or some form of platform of control.

These are guys that are necessary to this community. They are putting the work in without think of filtering which developer is working on what.

yet you guys think, you have a right to shop up in here and decided whether someone can or can’t post whatever content they would like to promote the community and support the community in some form or another.

This is sad, that all you guys were after were control


#98

Dude u r really deep sick - ""that all you guys were after control " control of what ?

Not existing marketing & decision making ? No resposiblity to anyone ?

It seems like You are holding the power as You can stop a vote that has been passed - just because it is against what You think.

Sad is that this coin is not developed, not properly put into marketing. And as long as @FollowWings style is proceeded this = SCAM nothing more. Free jevlery and flinston art. Sorry it is so far from being pro as earth is from moon :slight_smile:

GL it is just next xdn etc…


#99

I have no control over this community and I don’t want it now or ever, it would be against everything the coin was built for.

You guys created got a bunch of accounts who only signed up recently after members of the community audited and saw this proposal was a bad idea.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you were all here to subvert the community. (Notice I said I wouldn’t be surprised).

The manipulative approach is what was wrong.

Iazp and MikeM said it- the control to filter what people can post in support of the community. Additionally, the work of @FollowWings is NOT a SCAM.

@Nicholas provided free BitcoinZ via an introductory letter, He also created fobs, had you guys had control, he would not have been able to do this, as by your standards, and words, it would be a SCAM.

I am sick for having to entertain this. The truth is your proposal is against the community, and I will assure you, it will garner more rotten and bad apples like yourselves, given that this idea of what you want, in your image, of what you think is ideal for the community is the problem we are fighting against, both as a decentralized community and as a crypto-miners, traders and people involved in the space.


#100

Ah yes, more words being put in my mouth for me.
@Jhanny please point out in direct reference where I have suggested filtering every post.

If you take the time to read my proposal not the one posted for voting, the guidelines were to be on a volunteer basis, you either choose to follow them or you choose not to. There is no control over what people post ( you simply can’t) and the entire project of mine was simply to create guidelines and a group that was interested in working within them. Some would choose to work outside the guidlines and there is nothing you can do about that in a decentralized enviornment.

Your interpretation has us hijacking the blockchain, controlling the entire project (by hypnosis I can only assume) and forking the coin. Not sure how a bunch of graphics guys would do that, but I’m sure it makes sense to you.

I will not be spending another second of my time rewriting any of this as it’s already been judged and juried.


#101

@Akta86 Thank you very much to take the time to ask questions to ascertain a better understanding.


#102

wow, whoa, who said anything about blockchain and such. Only pointed out the obvious regarding the function of marketing.

Why would you want to control that function of an entire decentralized community, if you had any good intentions?

especially given that you are aware that, you are aware, it is a decentralized community and centralized functions aren’t required, however, you are more than welcome to follow your guidelines on your own. Your notion, seemed so convincing that you felt it required be set as a standard that all should follow?

This is where you lost me and others, because your only dynamic was an attack on those whom you and others deemed, unworthy of supporting the community, with their art and graphics. Some of your supporters vehemently named called, character assassinated all against the rules of the the community paper, clearly outlined in the code of conduct.

You rebuttal, to ignore the damage done and impress questions upon me regarding what and where you said filter.

Your “Yes” men voters who seek to only find a method to sell their BitcoinZ at a higher market price are the ones that outlined filtering content.

read up and have a look, in support of you, and their comprehension of yours and MikeM’s proposal.

Premature delivery or not, this should have been developed with the entirety of the community and all it represents in mind. Disregarding all you claim to have known, you still produced what you did and someone made a proposal out of it.

If you were in favor of the community you would vote against this and say you don’t support it.

Your attitude however, is clear; state that the issue is at someone else’s door, and take zero ownership of your work, and do the right thing regarding what your proposal should be.

It’s simple, create a proposal that reflects your understanding of the community, with respect and regard for the benefiting long-term and short term of the community.

I can get slandered and called names or worse because the idea of BitcoinZ and the existence of it is beyond any control structure.

I don’t think you understand the problem you created or MikeM created by making this proposal. All you guys did was clearly, undermine the community, with a proposal like this one.

It feels like you are the type to create a bomb, then say you aren’t sorry that the bomb was created or used, regardless of the destruction it inflicts.

I think you should reflect your professionalism in your creativity, and if you created this proposal, it should have been designed from the outset, to remain in-line with rebranding.

The notion of controlling how the image of BitcoinZ is represented by a so called team, that does not answer to the community is a recipe for disaster, and you, have shown zero regard for this unnecessary piece of work, which could have been executed by you and your team, without the need for a proposal.

Many have said this above, yet Kasso and others seek, to undermine others.

Throughout history, people with a different perspective got called deluded, crazy, paranoid and they turned out to be right about a number of things; especially tyrants.

Additional:

Logistics of the Marketing Process
With the use of a private forum channel, the Marketing Team would be able to create a new thread each time content is created. Discussion in that thread would be directed around the submitted content with the updated or altered version always appearing in the first post. Once the majority of the marketing team is in approval of the content, the content would be released into the wild and dissemination would take place as it already organically does.

This is not a marketing process. This is a control structure.

“the content would be released into the wild and dissemination would take place as it already organically does.”

  • the content dissemination into the wild, is done by those whose content, you called SCAMS and SCAM like.

  • Would they support your work? I don’t think so, not after insulting them.

  • The lack of support of your work may have led to this proposal and call for rebranding to eliminate the “fan art”. Why? Where is your work? I used to be able to get it from the marketing channel, now you want a private marketing channel?

  • How many private channels are there?

  • Organic growth is already happening, and its the fan art, that it usually starts off with.

  • I am support of BitcoinZ as many are due to it aiming towards decentralisation as one of the few and only coins without any control constructs, ie no one in charge, just people working within teams and pods, and together no matter what level of content they produce.

  • Your proposal undermines and disrespects others.

here you suggest that “fan art” is seen as a harmful impact on BTCZ community:

“Marketing Strategy
By creating a consistent and professional platform of marketing that comprises of imagery, articles, blog entries, press releases, and testimonials the message will be stronger and BitcoinZ will gain in image and exposure. A steady release of this consistent and upscale content will hopefully dilute the “fan art” that many see as a harmful impact on the BTCZ community. The team will provide PSD and Sketch files of templates that can be used for new marketing materials so they will all be consistent before it goes into the review process.”

This is not a marketing Strategy.

A marketing strategy comprises so much more than outlining a few things that have to be done with content?

You should know better, and there is no excuse that you didn’t have enough time, or someone prematurely released your work. If those where the things you had prepared and it was released, then it means that person also does not believe in what you were proposing or building to be in the best interest of the community.

especially given that you already had the Marketing strategy outlined so briefly. Maybe you have spent time researching and updating it since.

Consistent content is not what BitcoinZ is even about as a community-driven coin, yet, many coins that claim to have a community are governed by a team, applying the same structure of wall-street that we are all trying to get away from, with crypto as a conduit towards that end-goal.

Its funny, that limited knowledge and insight, ignorance related to much of what you proposed and created in your work, lead those with even less knowledge on marketing to insults those who were actively promoting BitcoinZ online across Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, and other social media platforms.

I hope you can consider that there is more to marketing and rebranding before you attempt to push another proposal through.

Please keep it inline with the community paper /white paper and you will have my support. If it seeks any control structures, this is where you will not have my vote.

The only coin to have a community without a leader in any function or area of its community. Truly decentralized!
That is the aim. It will be a long road however, BTCZ will prosper.